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Bittype
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Petition Reply with quote

I apologise if this in wrong to do, however it is very important to me and other pagans in the UK.

As some of you may know I am a Pagan, unfortunately due to a shortsighted act some 200 years ago Paganism was banned in the UK. And Pagans through out the UK are fighting for the same rights as all other religions enjoy in this country.

If you are a UK citizen or Ex-pat,
Please click the link below and sign the petition, Paganism is now one of the fastest growing religions in this country, and was the backbone of British society for thousands of years before it was banned. Please help us gain the right to be recognised as a religion once more, and have the same rights in the work place as all other religions.


http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Paganism/

Again I am sorry if this is wrong, but as I said we are fighting to be recognised once more.

Thanks.
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d4sh
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see anything wrong with it, but I'm not allowed to sign the petition, am I?
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Dragonram
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I have to be 18?

- Š
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WiredNight
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm still around. I've been having some... issues... lately, but I'm still around. Cool

Okay onto the topics. Not sure if you all know, but I work with religions inside the American military, and pagans are having similiar problems out here as well. The problem is out here in America, once you get past the term "pagan" its not all the same, and in fact its very, very different. Seems over the past 200 years or more, pagan has become a catch all phrase for quite a few different "denominations" of paganism. Wiccan is different then Isis worship, which is different then druidism.

Plus then you have the, for lack of better polite terms, cult-pagans, that are using it not as a religion but as a counter-culture movement to dance naked and have sex around large campfires.

The easiest way to get noticed though is not petitions and such, but you have to organize, especially when its something as controversial as paganism. I swear the only time Anglicans and Catholics agree is when they say paganism is satanism, so you're going to be fighting what we call in America the Christian conservatives., or the religious right.

Okay so back to what I was saying, governments don't recognize people, they recognize groups of people, and they recognize money, technically taxes. You know tax law, in this case religious tax law, and you'll see what it takes to be recognized as a religious organization under tax law.

Once your organization meets those requirements, you're already half way there to a easier way to be recognized by the courts and have that idiotic law repelled.

Not sure how paganism works in the UK, but talking to my friend Izzy back in the day before I lost contact with her, Paganism in the UK is also a catch all phrase. My best advice is to form a couple of "councils" which embody similiar beliefs between pagans, and have them as your front.

In case you're wondering, the US Army (which I am not in) had similiar problems a number of years ago, when a number of pagan soldiers wanted to be recognized as a religious organization and to be supported in their beliefs by the Army Chaplain's office. Above is what they needed to do.

The Navy (which I am in) is going through similiar growing pains right now, following the army, and that is a fight in which I'm involved in. And while Paganism isn't outlawed in America technically, well, the religous right does hold a solid grasp on American politics.
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lorellei
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Signed it for you bitt.
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Bittype
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately as it is going to be presented to no. 10 only UK citizens or Ex-Pats can sign.

It doesn't matter what tradition you follow, ALL pagans celebrate the same 8 sabbats, perhaps it changed with those that went to the new world as so many things did back then. But our argument here is that yes there ARE many Pagan traditions, but ALL of them celebrate the same holidays at the same time. It doesn't matter if you worship Isis, Istarti, Diana, Hecate, Damita, Kali, Inana, Thor, Odin, Horus, etc. We ALL come together and celebrate the same holiday together, and willingly take part in each others ceremonies if invited.

The UK Government are trying to argue that because there are so many traditions Paganism can not be recognised, however as stated Paganism refers to ALL the traditions who ALL have the same holidays at the same time ,and all the holidays represent the same thing Yule is Yule for ALL pagans Beltane is also the same in all traditions and Samhain is New Year in all the traditions.
We all have the same basic beliefs, but each expands in its own direction,
and the meaning of the holidays is also the SAME, we just celebrate them differently or perform different ceremonies.
I am a Pagan.. If you want to be specific I am Wicca, I am a Witch.

As a Witch I am permitted to do NO harm as the often MISQUOTED Rede states in 8 simple words... And it harm none, Do what thou will. In other words do what we like but in doing it cause NO HARM of any kind.
Yet some of my best friends follow the Norse tradition and they are permitted 1 act of retribution if harm is done to them.
But in all traditions one rule reigns supreme.... The rule of return, sometimes called the rule of three or The Three Fold Law. Commonly known among non pagans as What goes around Comes around.
We are encouraged to study and learn about the other traditions and other religions as well, in my studies I have learned that indeed some of the traditions of the US Pagans do indeed differ slightly from our own, and some of the traditions have separated and see not wish to mingle with other traditions. But the one basic belief that ALL traditions follow no matter where in the world they are (As far as I have been able to tell) is that of CHOICE, no one can tell you what to believe or what path to follow the choice is yours and yours alone.
A Witch for example is required to study for a year and a day before swearing the oaths before the God and Goddess, this is to ensure they are certain that they are walking the path of their own choosing.

Apologies for the long post I had not intended it to be so long of go into so much detail.
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Eminition whirled around and jammed his gun barrel right into Agamemnomn’s head: “This is for Bittype.” With a destructive blast, a merciless bullet tore through The Cypherite’s skull and brain.
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Last edited by Bittype on Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H'mm. I'm not particularly fond of any religions. However, I'm far more concerned with equality.

So I've signed. Wink

Mind you, I'm not sure how seriously this petititon is going to be taken:
Quote:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Paganism is the traditional and original belief system of Britain, it should be recognised as a religion once more.

Sorry, that sentence doesn't make any sense. Confused

Also, I'm not sure you need to worry too much about things like equal rights in the workplace. If you're not allowed to be a Pagan, just don't mention that you are one!

Then, of course, it comes down to the matter of feeling the need to tell people you are a Pagan, admit what you are, which is something I've never understood. The same goes for other issues, like sexual preference: I don't care if you're straight, gay, bi, black, white, Catholic, Pagan, Jewish, male, female... whatever. As long as it doesn't affect your performance (like old age might in certain jobs). If you're happy with what you are, that's awesome and ultimately that's all that matters, but I really don't care.

That's also why I'm sceptical about this MxO Pride thing. It's got nothing to do with people being gay, bi or transsexual; I'd be equally annoyed at a Straight Pride parade.

Sorry if that sounds callous. It's just my interpretation of equality: nothing matters. Wink
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Bittype
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The petition is just one of many avenues we are trying, there are Pagans working within Whitehall itself to get us recognised.

Procurator wrote:

Also, I'm not sure you need to worry too much about things like equal rights in the workplace. If you're not allowed to be a Pagan, just don't mention that you are one!


By Law EVERY recognized religion in this country MUST be permitted paid time off to celebrate there religious holidays, that is basically the right we are fighting for. Legally we can NOT take time off of work to celebrate our New Year, or any of the other celebrations, yet Muslims, buddists, ect ARE permitted this right. If we want to celebrate we are FORCED to do it a part of our Holiday allowance.
I know you did not mean it that way Proc but we say WHY should WE have to hide the fact OUR religion just so that we can not be sacked because of it, (It does happen quite often). Because Paganism is not a recognised religion we have NO legal recourse if we are sacked or refused work because of it. ANY other religion is protected my law, if we are beaten up in the street because we are Pagan.. tough all we can hope for in law is GBH or assault.
For the last 200 years until 1976 According to the Statute Books Pagans could be arrested and summarily imprisoned without trial, granted that law had not been used for almost 100 years. The point is why should we have to hide who and what we are.


There is a bit more about it down near the list of people who have signed, I believe the bit at the top is more of a title or headline.
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Eminition whirled around and jammed his gun barrel right into Agamemnomn’s head: “This is for Bittype.” With a destructive blast, a merciless bullet tore through The Cypherite’s skull and brain.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I didn't think of religious holidays. That's reason enough for the petition, I guess. Smile

I agree that it's wrong that people should be sacked for their religious views (as long as they're not in themselves illegal or terribly unethical, which to my knowledge Pagan views are not), or not treated fairly in court. If being legally recognised as a religion helps you get those rights, then that's groovy.

However, ultimately the problem with society goes deeper than that. If we want a perfect world, creating laws allowing tougher sentencing for firing people because they're Pagan or for beating them up 'cos they're Pagan is wrong. People shouldn't be fired because of any of the things I mentioned above (eg religion, sexual preference, race, gender, etc. unless it's critical to the job) or assaulted because of it. In the latter case, they should be prosecuted for the assault, irrespective of the reason. Then sue them for being racist/religionist/sexist/whatever.

It's human nature that needs to be sorted out. *Mutters:* Exterminating the proles would be a good start...
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